Forum

Forum about the animation software Pencil

You are not logged in.

#26 2011-06-02 13:59:10

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Back on track:



http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/089.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

Now that I've straightened out my personal affairs and work situation I can get right back into the Solid State Project without further delay. I'm hoping to finish this by the end of June or mid-July. We'll see how long it takes with compositing efforts. In the mean time enjoy the content - far more is on the way soon to break down my workflow, show concepts, WIPs, and even updates on the Leika Reel/Animatic with more polished footage.

Last edited by ayetach (2011-06-02 14:18:57)

Offline

 

#27 2011-06-03 15:30:11

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Cell workflow:
When thinking about combining the 3d and 2d media together in a cohesive manner there's a lot of variables to take into consideration when drawing each cel superimposed or composited in-part to the 3d media.

For instance:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/example-1.png
(c) Mikko Stimbra

This image provides an example of a simple rough sketch character leaning against a wall in a hospital corridor. What makes this process interesting is not only the approach of illustrating the character in the enviornment so that he looks as if he belongs there but enhancing it with lighting calibrations, depth of field, and bounce light effects.

This next image...
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/example2.png
(c) Mikko Stimbra

...shows what details I will need to pay attention to while I make the characters existance in the scene seem more realistic - more believable.

Note the red circles indicate the key-light shadow - the main source of lighting that is affecting the way the form on the characters body looks. Although I do admit that the values on the characters body itself (the orange circles) is not in alignment with the value, there are also other lights that effect the lighting on his form.

Which lead us to the green circle. This bounce light is fill light that is competing with they lighting of the character, although it helps accentuate the general form of his body to make it more easily recognizable and reduce the high-contrast that would key light would make it is weaker, so the cast shadow is also lighter. Notice however that because the lighting down the hall is red the bounce light has a red tint to it, hinting at the environmental color.

For added effect in a polished scene the yellow circle indicates the depth of field, which plays into the rest of the image since the depth of field in the photon gather which produced the lighting along with the 3d camera settings made it so. Consistency is a must if beliability is going to account for the final image.

That said, there will definately be a lot of interesting lighting effects animation playing into this project. I don't plan on any kind of highly complex lighting designs for this pilot project (in fact I plan on going the more stylized route) but it will act as a guiding role to the polish of future animation work relating to this kind of mixed media approach.

Last edited by ayetach (2011-06-03 15:35:06)

Offline

 

#28 2011-06-19 09:02:20

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

This is a bit off subject matter but I found this old footage from way back in 1983 when John Lasseter (currently Pixar's CCO) performed some tests at Disney using superimposed traditionally-animated characters in a 3d environment. The characters and theme were taken from "Where the Wild Things Are", this essentially is where I'm going with the work, although in the future I'm going to play around with mixing static hand-drawn images with 3d composites on various degrees of integration. Good stuff smile

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvIDRoO8KnM[/youtube]

Last edited by ayetach (2011-06-19 09:02:49)

Offline

 

#29 2011-06-23 08:02:34

ZZDas
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 2010-02-25
Posts: 536

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Nice found Ayetach!

Offline

 

#30 2011-07-20 03:17:48

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/ls-logo-300x75.png
(c)

I will be doing a planned livestream of the first minute of this animation next week for viewers interested. I'm working on a compositing portfolio so this will hopefully work out to be something substantial in contribution. Either way it'll be fun. I'll provide dates and times when this will happen when we get closer to the weekend.

Last edited by ayetach (2011-10-06 11:03:10)

Offline

 

#31 2011-07-22 17:40:52

ZZDas
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 2010-02-25
Posts: 536

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Yay! that's good news Ayetach!
[place anxious emotion here] smile

Offline

 

#32 2011-08-09 10:14:12

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w173/benderillo/motivation/procrastination.jpg
(c)

Update (finally!):
This picture does my situation absolute justice in my ability to move forward with this project and just finish it up. So since its relatively small I might just do all of it next week and be done with it, its kind of crazy doing 3 projects at once that I want to finish before I go on vacation at the end of this month and having a client half way around the world for a 4th project that I work with on and off. Whew.

So maybe if I purchase 3 metric tons of coffee and maintain that drive to just get started with it each day I can be done with it and do it justice.

I did mention in an earlier post that I was going to do a livestream but when I implemented a workflow incorporating that whole thing when I did a character rigging demonstration I realized that its simply too distracting and taking my time when I need to is the better alternative (better than it is to have people chatting with you and asking all kinds of questions related to the work or not). Its not something I would rule out completely but maybe for the time being I'll just set it aside and get this months work done in one big swoop. I'll keep you all posted on my progress sometime next week - I would prefer giving dates but I dislike the idea of missing a post or whatever when I mentioned it would be up just because I'm not in that "mode" or something, so we'll just keep it a nice rounded guestimate of "next week" as the appropriate answer.

More to come (soon enough!) big_smile

Last edited by ayetach (2011-10-06 11:03:23)

Offline

 

#33 2011-08-16 08:22:06

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Day 1:
This is actually posted on day 2 of this project but I had so many problems with program stability (lots of crashes) that I almost decided to scuttle this idea. This will however be the only real recorded video before release since it consumes so much time with keeping away from crashes and mishaps. I'll be doing a series of modeling, in this video's case a city array, something which I can rearrange and redesign buildings so that each set and rendered flat that pans in pencil looks like a different part of the city (but is in fact using illusionary techniques to give it far more uniqueness). I'm using flat textures to accentuate the toon renders when theyre done but they will include a unique reflective surface that windows tend to convey. Lots more modeling and texturing in the next few days. Then on to principle animation work in Pencil big_smile - I'm going to aim for Sunday as its deadline so theres a lot of work to be done.

Click on the smiley face to view the video:
http://a.vimeocdn.com/portraits/defaults/d.75.jpg

Last edited by ayetach (2011-08-16 08:23:09)

Offline

 

#34 2011-08-17 13:27:01

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Day 2:
Lots of progress! Finished texturing what I call "simulation_city" basically a varition of the buildings you saw in the previous post but designed to be rendered out seperately as flat mattes to use in Pencil for panning and zoom shots...

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/simulation_city.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

...also did a 'cleanup' pass on my cel drawing. I like the look but I may change some of the values and tones before finalizing. I'm going to stick with PNG sequence export for a nice compile of the final animation but I'll have to create a white blob background to cover up the overlapping issue that comes along with doing that particular export, then import each image seperately and remove the area designed to be alpha (hopefully developers will get v0.5 out with that fix, it would make my process so much quicker! big_smile)...

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/example001.jpg
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

...You'll also notice that I still update the progress chart on the first post. Since there's still quite a bit of modeling (and texturing) the progress in those categories will go staggeringly slow, but since I'm moving at such an insanely fast pace you'll probably see that complete in no time!

I'm really looking forward to doing the rough pass traditional animation composite (as its the meat and potatos of this project and for pencil) then doing a clean up in the vector layer for export. I'm convinced that Pencil has the tools necessary to make a stunningly clean and solid piece of design work that the user puts into it so I'll be putting my assumption to the test these next few days. Very exciting.

More to come! smile

Last edited by ayetach (2011-08-17 13:29:14)

Offline

 

#35 2011-08-21 12:09:46

ZZDas
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 2010-02-25
Posts: 536

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Looking really cool Ayetach!!
i saw some of yo work with blender on your site and i must say, you're really good at it!
Looking forward to see more of you project.

Offline

 

#36 2011-08-22 10:24:36

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Flat matte pans and dollys:
This was a technique that captured my curiosity from the onset of this project. I wanted to experiment with the visual medium of 3d but using 2d animation tricks. To pull it off I basically rendered the subject matter out as an alpha-channeled PNG or TIFF using 32-bit mapping. Then by creating flat planes that match the image dimentions in the 3d package. I would then animate those planes each with their own images and either pan or move them closer to the camera to create that dolly effect. I find the 2d dolly/panning visual experiance rather unique so I wanted to move away from the typical 'perfect perspective' 3d alignment when moving an object in pan or zoom across 3d space and do traditional animation the justice of providing flat mattes instead.

Below is the process and a link to the video that demonstrates an example of this. I pre-rendered all the buildings out as alpha-channeled images and brought them back in to animate the dolly effect.

Setting up the models for a single image 'shoot':
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-08-22kl162402.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

Rendered results:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-08-22kl163123.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

Video demonstration:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-08-23kl100329.png

And yes, I know I mentioned uploading the finished film this past Sunday but I'm working on techniques that are new to me and I wanted to really polish it off so I'll be working on it progressively for the next few weeks.

Last edited by ayetach (2011-10-06 10:59:41)

Offline

 

#37 2011-08-22 12:28:31

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Here's additional video examples of the panning capabilities. I did a small zoom to add to that:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-08-23kl100249.png

Last edited by ayetach (2011-08-23 01:08:00)

Offline

 

#38 2011-08-22 18:11:23

ZZDas
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 2010-02-25
Posts: 536

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Yay!
The more i see the more i want to see the final project.
Keep up.

Offline

 

#39 2011-09-03 15:32:56

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Suzanne Awards:

http://suzanne.myblender.org/templates/www/images/assets/banner_gold.png

I've decided to try to submit this short-film in to the Suzanne Animation Festival during the Blender Conference 2011 in Amsterdam this year (of which I'll be attending). Since I use a nice portion of the Blender software for the production and post-production of this work, I believe it qualifies for the submission. Hopefully Pencil will gain some recognition along side Blender if this recieves good reception from the audiances. Cross your fingers for me smile

Last edited by ayetach (2011-09-03 15:34:23)

Offline

 

#40 2011-09-05 14:16:50

ZZDas
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 2010-02-25
Posts: 536

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

I believe:

"competition is the ultimate way to learn! And that because you have a deadline, a goal and therefore you'll put all you got and struggle to learn more in order to win!"

And about:

ayetach wrote:

Cross your fingers for me

I'm crossing fingers on both hands! wink

Offline

 

#41 2011-09-14 10:47:21

gatti
Member
From: NJ, USA
Registered: 2009-10-27
Posts: 35
Website

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

This is awesome stuff. Keep it going!


Help support indie games. ProRattaFactor & PxlPlz
Check out my games on iPad, iPhone and iPod touch http://bit.ly/oIVuzB
Pencil v0.4.4b - Mac 10.6.8

Offline

 

#42 2011-09-26 10:27:27

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Musical re-scoring and other stuffs:
Posts these days are long and far between, but don't worry people I've been very very busy working in full-swing of the production of this short film. I have 3 weeks left until the deadline so lots of footage is being developed and rolled through the development line. big_smile

I thought I'd share some of the content thats in the public knowledge area.

Music:
I've been wrangling with issues regarding the musical soundtrack of this short because the content I had in mind was copyrighted and very inflexible to public presentations. So I searched around on the net for various artists that supported creative commons licensing and I happened to find one that I thought was ideal enough to the original musical idea. I had to do some remastering of the videotrack and re-timing of the animation to the score but in the end it all worked out big_smile

You can see the new preview leika reel here:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-08-23kl100850.png

Its also available through the front page on the usual links.

Art stuffs:
Some of the fun stuff I have been working on is the mattes that I use for flat panning shots and multi-layer animation to give it more depth (alot of old Disney techniques really, but all digitized - quite wonderful.) Some mattes included is cloud variations, I painted them to be used on both reflective surfaces and matte backdrops:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-09-26kl175330.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-09-26kl175318.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-09-26kl175308.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

Example application:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-09-26kl203630.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

The original images include alpha channels so I might make that available later on wink

You'll also get to see some finished, polished shots for those first 30 seconds but everything after that is completely secret. Regardless, it'll be nice to see the developmental process from small, pen-sketched storyboard panels to fully rendered and hand-drawn animation in that preview segment. smile

I won't be able to post as often for the obvious reasons of a tight schedule and lots of animating but I'll try to squeeze in a few more posts before release smile

More to come (eventually tongue)

(P.S. Also the short comes out either the 15th or 16th of October if everything goes as planned.)

(P.S.S. Progress Chart updated!)

(P.S.S.S. I completely forgot to mention but during my animating one of the users - Zelgadis - made ready a very nice Linux build of Pencil v0.5 beta with some corrections, I've decided to switch between that and OSX's v0.4.4b build of Pencil until I get an OSX version running properly - I simply haven't had enough time to look at it. For those who use Linux, check it out, its everything v0.5 should be. You'll really like it wink)

(P.S.S.S.S. <--That's pretty ridiculous, but just as a note I realized that Vimeo desyncronized the video from the audio so they don't play in on the beat - I'll be sure to rectify that issue for future submissions.)

Last edited by ayetach (2011-10-06 11:01:19)

Offline

 

#43 2011-10-06 10:57:44

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Progress:
This won't be much of a post but I thought I'd drop in and provide a brief progress report with the animation. So far I've learned quite a bit about the compositing process I decided for myself on this project and started finalizing scenes. I was considering doing a livestream of some animation sequences that is public knowledge but I think I'll stick to pre-recorded material instead (if I find time). There's 26 scenes and so far 4 are complete 7 almost done, far more will be finalized this weekend.

Lots of coffee, grapes, and grit determination to pull off all the stops in making the final lock for the Suzanne Awards.

I thought I'd share some of the current aethetics of the film in one of these finalized renders. Its composited using animation from Pencil and put together from flat sprites and actual 3d animated renders in Blender. I had hoped for more work on some of these scenes (hand-drawn cast shadows & more work on the toon shading technique) but the time constraints will simply make that too difficult to determine if its possible at all. Perhaps later for my own personal satisfaction smile

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/0064.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

Here's a screenshot of what I have been compositing using for the shot:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Utennavn.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

I've learned a tremendous amount of material in the past few weeks and I anticipate more in the coming days smile I'm feeling pretty good about the process so I just need to make sure that coffee is constantly stoked for fuel @.@ More to come hopefully big_smile

(P.S. On a side note I've transferred my domain and portfolio site to a different service provider [yay!] so I'll be able to get ad free content up. Lots more html will go into making a proper gallery and project blog for future endevours.)

Last edited by ayetach (2011-10-06 11:02:23)

Offline

 

#44 2011-10-12 14:09:03

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Pencil at its finest:
Nothing is a better learning approach than actually engaging in a project that poses problems for you to solve in the process of finishing completed content. Atleast that's the case for me. I have learned some very clever workflows to effectively finish rough to 'inked' and polished animation, as well as some hidden features Pencil harbours that I never knew about:

Camera Layer:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-10-12kl221846.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

Inking Layer:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-10-12kl230236.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

Above is one of the cels I'm using in the animation. It has a sketch layer for the obvious reasons a rough sketch outline, an 'inking' layer for actual clean linework but all this done in raster format. I had initially percieved the process as being vector-based work for the final polish but I realized that going with a raster approach for most methods and shots tends to work more effectively (and far quicker) since there are less vector point corrections and paint bucket drops - which leads me to my next point. I realized that when working with Raster images using the polyline tool by creating another layer below (above it in the timeline for v0.4.4b) a paintbucket will usually fill in all the relevant closed off areas indicated for a fill, but what I didn't know was that Pencil actually retains the linework and places the fill on the layer below it, thus seperating the linework and the fill. Genius. Occassionally there were some spots that needed some custom painting but I seperated that with another raster layer that included some quick touch ups below both the other two layers (Inking and Fill layers) for a final polish. The shaded values I did in vector using the pencil tool, since I went over areas with white and used a black with 10% opacity I had more control over the value I wanted to change for the shaded regions of my subject's face. Combine the vector and raster layers for all these workflows above and the rate at which I can produce polished footage is phenominal. Now I can spend more time working on animating more scenes and paying attention to the 'acting' aspect of character animation.

I is pleased smile

Offline

 

#45 2011-10-17 00:18:24

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Progress Report:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/mcface.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

Hi everyone, I have worked laboriously to get everything ready for the Suzanne film festival that was due Sunday but despite my late nights working on this for the past month and the lack any sleep over each of the weekends (I was putting 66 hours into the project last week alone). The pace at which I was producing footage was a bit too slow and I felt the drawings were not up to quality that I would have preferred if I submitted it now. That said I'm going to find an alternative film festival in November and continue producing the remaining footage (I'm 60% done if I remove the footage I deem necessary for quality improvement). I was doing over 300-400 frames in a few short days so you can imagine that not all the frames were up to snuff. I prefer quality over quantity so unfortunately my release will have to wait just a few more weeks, but I think results will be far better. I'll also be able to organize my libraries so that when I do release the film I'll also have content to release that the community to scope out.

Last edited by ayetach (2011-10-23 09:51:41)

Offline

 

#46 2011-10-23 09:59:34

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

October 23rd Progress Report:
Good stuff going on. It feels quite a bit more relaxing to tone it down with the time put into it with a 20 hourish cap a week. I have decided to animate most of the traditionally animated sequences in singles as opposed to doing them in twos. Yes its more work but as Richard Williams' reference mentions "twos work, ones fly" so since this whole project is emphasized on quality I want to move in that direction. That said, there are a number of challanges such as time consumption, volumes in the animation, and output per week.

I'm going to aim for something like 20 seconds a week but that might be aiming high so I'll see how the next few weeks go, sequences like this one...

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-10-20kl184431.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

...don't need too much animating or are limited by the need for animating. Granted that I will try to do singles for the 'animated parts', there will also be segments that incorporate asian approaches to setting the point across in a scene without too much animating necessary. I want to cut the corners as much as I can but without sacrificing quality (just more time saving methods really).

Below I put up a video (I know how you guys like videos, I do atleast wink) that shows roughly 2 of the 6 hours of animating a sequence with MC (the character in the film) walking towards an elevator at a three-quarters angle in perspective (the second to last shot shown in the leika reel). Shots like these are incredibly difficult to draw out (especially with a suitcase - displaying weight) so I put a bit of planning into it. I had her walking casually (16 frames per step) with alternating hand gestures; it was rather complicated, but I'm confident it will look good after the final polish.

This screenshot shows the basic form-figure (or stick-figure, however you prefer calling it) that helps me plan out the timing and pacing of the character. I started like this because it was a very simple and easy means for me to understand the flow of the movement without all the details getting in the way. The core idea is to nail the timing and spacing correctly.

Perspective layout:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-10-23kl183829.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

Gesture layout:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-10-23kl183708.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

Next I roughed out MC's basic body form over each key and extreme to get a general idea of her posture and movement. After I find the gestures agreeable I will then animate the rest of the cels and use them as a reference for my inking and final-polish which I can then composite and lock the final picture for the scene smile

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-10-23kl183742.png
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-sa/3.0/88x31.png

All this is demonstrated on the video below:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Pencil%20Forum/Skjermbilde2011-08-23kl100850.png

(P.S. Incase anyone was wondering this scene I used for the post runs just under 10 seconds in the film so it goes to show why all this is taking time. smile)

Last edited by ayetach (2011-10-23 12:53:09)

Offline

 

#47 2011-10-24 00:57:19

BlackThorn
New member
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 7

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

With 3D camera moves, 2D animation is tricky at best.   The most difficult scenes are those whose 3D objects translate, distort, and must "stick" to the scene (not float).

The best I could come up with to accurately mesh 2D with 3D is to animate the timing of the object in Pencil, mimic the timing with a 3D object, then trace the 3D rendered images in Pencil.

If done this way, the initial 2D animation does not have to be detailed or at the same angle because the only thing that matters is timing. 

In 3D, change camera angle or add camera moves, export rendered images, then import into Pencil to trace.  As long as the outline of where the object touches the 3D world, it should appear to "stick".  Export vector art.  Composite.

Take for example, MC's walk.  Even if it's not a cycle (an erratic walk), you could sketch a stick figure for timing in Pencil from a side view, then animate the same timing on a generic skeletal frame in Blender, also from the side.  If it's a cycle, it's even easier.  Change your camera angle, export images, then trace in Pencil.  Export 2D vector art images.  Composite.

If you're a skilled 3D artist, this technique may not apply.

Last edited by BlackThorn (2011-10-24 01:03:30)

Offline

 

#48 2011-10-24 08:53:31

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Hi BlackThorn,

Thanks for your input, I wanted to reply to some of your thoughts:

BlackThorn wrote:

With 3D camera moves, 2D animation is tricky at best.   The most difficult scenes are those whose 3D objects translate, distort, and must "stick" to the scene (not float).

Having a panning or moving camera is rather tricky I agree, but luckly this particular scene has a single static shot so there's no panning or zooming going on. That said, I can still make the zoom happen after I rendered out the image and animated the sequence. Even with pans, by increasing the render size (1280x720 to 1800x720) I can successfully pull of a convincing pan effect that holds to the traditional animation methods in post (which is the aesthetic look I'm going for - think of say.. building pans from the opening shots in "Akira").

BlackThorn wrote:

The best I could come up with to accurately mesh 2D with 3D is to animate the timing of the object in Pencil, mimic the timing with a 3D object, then trace the 3D rendered images in Pencil.

I kind of agree, but I feel I understand perspective, weight, and the human form to tackle it head on. Your idea though is very valid, especially for a shot I have later in the animation which includes the 3d camera actually moving in 3d space and rendering all the images along with it. In this particular case I have the challange of animating a character moving towards a corner of a building and turning and continuing to their left near the middle (while the camera moves around it). Something as complicated as this with the need for good perspective work almost necessitates the use of a low-poly model that's animated along this route to work out the placement of each drawing and its gesture.

BlackThorn wrote:

In 3D, change camera angle or add camera moves, export rendered images, then import into Pencil to trace.  As long as the outline of where the object touches the 3D world, it should appear to "stick".  Export vector art.  Composite.

My workflow runs in this similar manner, the only difference is that I'm timing and spacing my character animation seperately in Pencil (albeit special circumstances that require a 3d model reference). Also due to certain effective methods in speeding up the inking and final polish, using raster images combined with vector in Pencil actually helps smile All my compositing is in Blender.

BlackThorn wrote:

Take for example, MC's walk.  Even if it's not a cycle (an erratic walk), you could sketch a stick figure for timing in Pencil from a side view, then animate the same timing on a generic skeletal frame in Blender, also from the side.  If it's a cycle, it's even easier.  Change your camera angle, export images, then trace in Pencil.  Export 2D vector art images.  Composite.

That's an interesting approach, but the animator would still need to understand form and perspective to accurately draw MC walking in 3/4 perspective with the right form on her body viewed from the camera. What that would probably do though is help with the spacing (and perhaps timing) of MC in the shot for final sketch up later. Nice idea smile

BlackThorn wrote:

If you're a skilled 3D artist, this technique may not apply.

Producing 2.5D animation is does require some skills for sure in both camps, alot of pre-visulization, planning, and anticipation of what will or might work as opposed to what simply won't (I've only scratched the surface with lighting and its relationship with toon-shaded renders).

If I wanted to rotoscope all my work from animated work in 3d that might prove tricky since rotoscoping from live footage tends to give off this 'floating' feeling about the animation and the same might be suspected of this process as well, additionally what's the point? I may as well animate everything 3d if I wanted to but I can see the validity in your suggestion. I suppose every artist has their own style of doing things, we'll just have to see how this turns out smile Thanks again for your input!

Offline

 

#49 2011-10-25 05:52:24

BlackThorn
New member
Registered: 2011-10-05
Posts: 7

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Certainly, it's a workaround / hack for real 3D tools in a 2D medium and is advantageous only if your animation skills are greater in 2D than 3D.   The question is if the time spent will produce acceptable results. 

Even with proof of concept, results rely heavily on the skills of the animator.  In other words, what works for you may not work for me because our skill levels are different.  The only thing I can argue against this hack is complex lighting and/or on complex objects.

Offline

 

#50 2011-10-25 12:48:47

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: SOLID STATE - Pilot Episode

Yup, hence why good draftsmanship is crucial for the traditional animator smile

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB
© Copyright 2002–2008 PunBB