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  •  » Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

#1 2010-11-24 09:00:11

anette
Member
Registered: 2010-10-11
Posts: 23

Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

Hi there,

I'm trying to create a broken line in an animation, where each segment appears a short while after the other, but I've run out of timeline. It only goes to just over 156, so I can't see where to put the keys to begin the next line.  If I just arbitrarily keep going and click regardless of not being able to see where the pink key is, the image does appear in the animation - so it is registering!

At the moment I'm doing each new 'frame' as a new layer.  The manual indicates that you can draw several frames in each layer, which would help I think.  But how do you to this and keep the impression of movement?  And is there any way to overcome the shortness of the timeline?  The animation as it stands only lasts less than a minute.  I've tried changing the fps, but this doesn't make any significant difference.
I also get confused over the grey square 'keys': what do pale grey and dark grey mean respectively? 

Any suggestions will be gratefully received!
Many thanks in advance
Anette

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#2 2010-11-24 09:21:16

anette
Member
Registered: 2010-10-11
Posts: 23

Re: Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

Hi there, this is a follow-up with additional information.

I have found that I can see the additional timeline, but only when I stretch the entire pencil window.  As you can imagine, this quickly becomes unmanageable!  The scroll bar just won't move beyond 156.

Cheers
Anette

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#3 2010-11-24 09:42:25

Oluseyi
Member
Registered: 2009-09-22
Posts: 774

Re: Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

It's a problem with the way Pencil draws its timeline. It's really annoying, actually, and there's a bug filed on it from way back. Basically, Pencil does a bunch of custom drawing for the horizontal timeline area, and it doesn't expand beyond a certain length, which is actually a function of the size of your Pencil window - and thus a function of the size of your monitor.

I'm not promising a fix any time soon, since I don't yet have a good handle on why, exactly, this happens. In the meantime, you'll have to work around it by splitting your sequence into multiple Pencil projects. It sucks, I know, but it's the best I can do for now. Sorry. sad

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#4 2010-11-24 10:40:05

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

Interesting issue, is this an issue that occurs with low resolution monitors or screens? I don't think I've ever seen that with my use. I mean I've seen the timeline mess up graphically from a sound file import but not like this. Does the timeline scrollbar come into view? There could be minimum size requirement for the window itself in order to see everything properly.

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#5 2010-11-24 15:36:47

Spyro543
Member
Registered: 2010-07-27
Posts: 84

Re: Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

Why can't you edit the pencil options? not sure what menu it's in, but it should be called Preferences. when you get to that window, click time line and you can select how many frames you want displayed. that works for me. no bugs found here (for me, at least).


I'm more of a programmer now, but I'll come back to animation once in a while.

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#6 2010-11-24 17:26:56

Oluseyi
Member
Registered: 2009-09-22
Posts: 774

Re: Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

Spyro543 wrote:

Why can't you edit the pencil options? not sure what menu it's in, but it should be called Preferences. when you get to that window, click time line and you can select how many frames you want displayed. that works for me. no bugs found here (for me, at least).

You're right! This is really weird: the build(s) of Pencil I have at the office, where I was answering anette's question earlier today, don't have that option. Instead they only had the "frame size in pixels" options. The builds I have at home, however, have the "Timeline size in Frames" option, as they should. Bizarre.

@anette:
Allow me to revise my answer. The correct approach is to go to the preferences (OS X) or options (Windows, Linux; it should be under Tools) and raise the value of "Timeline size in Frames." Set it to something nice and high like 500. smile

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#7 2010-11-24 17:29:05

Oluseyi
Member
Registered: 2009-09-22
Posts: 774

Re: Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

ayetach wrote:

Interesting issue, is this an issue that occurs with low resolution monitors or screens? I don't think I've ever seen that with my use. I mean I've seen the timeline mess up graphically from a sound file import but not like this. Does the timeline scrollbar come into view? There could be minimum size requirement for the window itself in order to see everything properly.

As you can see above, my build at the office gave me a false impression. There are still issues pertaining to timeline length (I think the length should automatically grow to at least position_of_last_key + (2 * framerate)), but those are for another time.

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#8 2010-11-25 21:37:53

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

So this issue remains in that build for anyone with any monitor size then? I'll have to play around with the timeline some more to find that bug.

Last edited by ayetach (2010-11-25 21:38:16)

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#9 2010-12-01 23:48:19

anette
Member
Registered: 2010-10-11
Posts: 23

Re: Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

Hi everyone
Many thanks.  This is all useful.  I haven't tried Oluseyi's tip yet, but fingers crossed! 
I like the tip on creating several projects.  It sounds quicker and less frustrating than my method (see below).  Any advice on how/if it is possible to cobble them together to create one continuous project?

In the meantime, prior to a bug fix, someone may find this useful -
It is possible, at least on the Mac, to expand the timeline, but it involves the following (rather convoluted and time-consuming but 'do-able') solution:
Drag the window to the left so that much of it is off-screen
Extend the width of the Pencil window
Drag the window back so the scrollbar and keys at the start can be accessed
Drag the scrollbar/move the key as far as possible to the right
Repeat as necessary until the relevant place in the timeline is reached
As you can imagine if you haven't done this, moving the keys for a longer project takes a while.

Again, thanks everyone
Anette

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#10 2010-12-02 02:44:32

ZZDas
Member
From: Portugal
Registered: 2010-02-25
Posts: 536

Re: Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

anette wrote:

Any advice on how/if it is possible to cobble them together to create one continuous project?

Export each one as a video file or as a image sequence and then mix them together in a video editor.Pencil don't support two projects open side-by-side.

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#11 2010-12-02 11:02:52

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

I still find it really odd that you're having so many issues with the timeline on an intel-mac. Whats your screen resolution? Are you having issues seeing the timeline's scroll bar along the bottom at startup?

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#12 2010-12-03 07:06:19

anette
Member
Registered: 2010-10-11
Posts: 23

Re: Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

Hi Ayetach,
The resolution is 1024x768, on a 19" screen, so everything's quite small.  There are no problems with seeing the scrollbar.  It just only takes the timeline to just over 156 unless the entire window is expanded.  Strange, I know ...

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#13 2010-12-03 12:37:44

Ayetach
Administrator
Registered: 2010-05-30
Posts: 1136

Re: Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

That's your problem. The screen resolution is too small, this particular post mentions the issue very clearly and it is a known issue. It has really nothing to do with Pencil in the manner of a broken interface but the fact that it requires a screen resolution that is larger than the standard 1024x768 and it isn't documented as a required hardware configuration. Maybe this will be addressed for low-resolution monitors in the future but for now you'll need to find alternative monitors that offer higher resolution workspace. I'll probably log this in as a valid bug on the bug-tracker.

But then again after re-reading your post it seems your issue is not necessarily related to what I'm saying either.

Last edited by ayetach (2010-12-03 12:38:41)

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#14 2011-08-02 03:42:58

rylleman
Member
Registered: 2008-06-17
Posts: 14

Re: Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

I'm still having this timeline issue in 0.5.
I have the option to set number of frames but Pencil seems to disregard this. I can only scroll 150-200 frames past last keyframe. Even if I then add new keyframes at the end of the timeline it does not extend any further.
I have found that if I create a keyframe at the very end of the timeline, saves and then restart Pencil and the scene I can scroll an additional 150-200 frames. I then repeat the steps above to extend the timeline as far as I'd like to have it.

Pencil 0.5, Linux Mint 11, 64-bit Gnome. (23" screen in 1920x1080)

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#15 2011-08-03 05:01:52

muhkayoh
Member
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: 2008-01-21
Posts: 155
Website

Re: Run out of timeline & how to draw frames in a layer

@rylleman: Good tip.  Thanks!

"Linux Mint 11, 64-bit Gnome. (23" screen in 1920x1080)"  We have the same set-up!  We're practically twins.  big_smile

Matt

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